Login
Username

Password

Remember Me

Learn how to register!
or
Forgot your password?
Request a new one!
Support
Like on FacebookLike on Facebook
Vote for AVATAR at TopMudSites!
Vote for AVATAR on TMC!
Follow us on Twitter
Donate to AVATAR using PayPal - Thank you!
Polls
What is your favorite anniversary event?
- view results -
Newbie Tip
AVATAR is full of quests! Look at mobs, examine tickets, and put your brain to the test. Look at the gnome shopkeeper in the area north of the meadow for your first quest. - Locqui
Users Online
Guests Online: 2
No Members Online

Member Count: 518
Newest: AEton
View Thread
Avatar | Cybernations | Cybernations Ambassadors
Author Improvements Best buying order (repost from mailer)
Lizardry
Member

User Avatar

Posts: 11
Location: Moscow, Russia
Joined: 22.01.07
Posted on Dec 30 2007 14:09
The relative benefit of a factory vs a bank dependson the level of the nation.

At my current level (2,913 citizens with gross tax of $79,816 and an infra cost of 4904.07)) the bank is the better choice. The reasoning is this:

A bank increases income 7% which results in a 7% increase in taxes - in my case this is currently an increase of $5,587.
A factory reduces the cost of infra by 8% or in my case it is a decrease of $392.32 ($3,923.20 for 10 infra).
The net benefit for a bank over a factory is currently $1,664 per day

When you look at 5 banks vs 5 factories the difference is a reduction in infra cost (based on my $4,904 per level cost) of $19,616 while the increased income for 5 banks would be $27,935.

Because the cost ifr infra goes up, there will be a point where the cost savings will be more than the income increase. I have no idea as to the rate of increase of infra as it is purchased (I will start tracking that). Until the decrease in cost of infra is more than the increase of income a bank is the better choice.

DaWiz
Canon Land






I think you need to be a bit careful in reading too much into DaWiz's numbers. A couple of things to consider when analyzing the situation.



1. Aid - out of the box, banks don't help you a bit any spending cash you receive from aid. Factories give you the 8% boost. So for every 100k in aid you receive you gain 8k for each factory.

2. The below comparison is between a day's income and the cost of 10 infra. There is no reason to equate the 2 so while the math is correct the comparison doesn't seemed to be based on a real relationship.

3. A different comparison would be the amount of infrastructure purchased using DaWiz's numbers. The following ignores the step up in cost after 10 infra but should apply relatively equally to both

With a bank the days income increases 7% to $85,403 allowing the purchase of 17.42 infra

With the factory the cost of infra is reduced to $4,511.68 allowing the purchase of 17.69 infra

The factory is better by .27 infra a gain of $1,353 in favor of factory

Caveat -- this ignores the impact of daily cost which changes the analysis considerably.



4. Apply a daily cost would change the math depending on the ratio. Not knowing DaWiz's numbers I used applied a variety of ratios, with the break point around 20% (higher ratios favoring banks and lower ratio's favoring factories).



Based on experience if you are able to generate cash outside of taxes the factories are the way to go. DaWiz's analysis even modified as I suggest seems to be a better choice if you do not receive aid. The stated intention of the Alliance is to continue to fund aid so the suggestion to buy factories is based in large part on small countries receiving aid.



Take care,

Kwondimonium run by Kwinin






My figures are based on the premise that infra is purchased in lotsof 10 and the balance left is saved for improvements.It also does not figure in aid. With a bank, there is $36,362 left after a 10 level infra purchase - with a factory there is $34,698. DaWiz (Who currently has a surplus of $0.30)





Re: Improvement order?
From: cn-owner@ubercon.com on behalf of Cerdwyn, Kyandra, whoever I am (cerdwyn@gmail.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:28:47 PM
Reply-to: cn@outland.org
To: cn@outland.org

I'm tending to agree. If your little, banks may give you more. But as you get bigger, factories really make a difference.

I had 4 banks, two factories and my Infrastructure Costs Per Level was $13,249.86

I bought my 4th factory and my Infrastructure Costs Per Level became $11,987.97
or a decrease of 9.5%

You sold me Lizard.


On Dec 29, 2007 7:09 AM, Lizardry Avatar <lizardry@hotmail.com> wrote:

lizardry 29.12.07

I plan to investigate it deeply. Here are some observations, before I make infra jump over 700 w/ donation and will have much more infra and ability to buy more improvements.





I.0), The math.



factory cost is -8%, i.e. *0.92

while bank is +7% money, that is, *1.07



If you multiply these, 0.92 * 1.07 = 0.9844



That'd seem that factory effect is considerably greater than Bank's.

Right?





Not so fast. Read futher



The bank gives you increase in all money gained.



But! You can not spend all that money on infra.



You have to pay bills. And only the leftovers you may spend on infra.



In my current case, where I have 150K taxed and 50K in bills, a bank 'd give me



150K*0.07 = 10K+ extra to spend on infra, I will have not 100K, but 110K to spend, and that is 10% increase in infra I can buy.



Which is more than 8% bonus given by factory.



So, bank seems to be better than a factory.

Right?





Not so fast, read futher still







II.) The helps seem to be wrong completely.



1), the infra cost reductions stack, but do not sum up and do not multiply.



That is, total cost reduction is not -90% cost, as help on wiki suggest (sum of all -infra %s for all possible bonuses and improvements and wonder).

And it does not multiply like 0.92^5 * 0.9 * etc etc = about 39% w/ wonder and 42% w/o wonder.

Since the infra cost calculator tells us the total maximum reduction is -66%.



2), either admin changed it, or something else, but factory cost reduction is not -8%



I logged these costs before and after I purchased my last (4th) factory:





Current Infrastructure: 599.13
Total Population: 8,233 Supporters
Military Personnel: 3,204 (4,568) Soldiers
Citizens: 5,029 Working Citizens
Current Roubles Available: $2,184,748.78
Infrastructure Costs Per Level: $5,840.03
Infrastructure Value When Selling: $150.00
Daily Infrastructure Cost to Maintain: $51.27
Last Bill Payment: 12/23/2007




+ factory (nothing else changed)



Current Infrastructure: 599.13
Total Population: 8,233 Supporters
Military Personnel: 3,204 (4,568) Soldiers
Citizens: 5,029 Working Citizens
Current Roubles Available: $2,034,748.78
Infrastructure Costs Per Level: $5,225.29
Infrastructure Value When Selling: $150.00
Daily Infrastructure Cost to Maintain: $51.27
Last Bill Payment: 12/23/2007






As you can see, the infra cost moved from 5840.03 to 5225.29, the latter being... 0.895% of the former!



I.e. factory reduced cost by 10.5%!



Which, in my case, if you do the math again, is better than bank's effect.







The conclusion:



It does seem that all of this needs more research.

But finally I plan to reverse engeneer admin's code and find what is really best and why.



So, more info to come.




> From: dawiz@dawiz.net
> To: cn@outland.org
> Subject: Re: Improvement order
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:30:01 -0700
>
> My figures are based on the premise that infra is purchased in lotsof 10 and
> the balance left is saved for improvements.
> It also does not figure in aid.
>
> With a bank, there is $36,362 left after a 10 level infra purchase - with a
> factory there is $34,698.
>
> DaWiz (Who currently has a surplus of $0.30)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris" <chiles@ucwsf.org>
> To: <cn@outland.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Improvement order
>
>
> > w00t, but I'm still calling him a putz!
> >
> > 1st Lt Christopher Hiles, RN BSN, CAP
> > Nurse Officer
> > Maryland Wing
> > Deputy Commander for Cadets
> > Fort McHenry Composite Squadron
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cn-owner@ubercon.com [mailto:cn-owner@ubercon.com] On Behalf Of
> > KayeOsse
> > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:59 PM
> > To: cn@outland.org
> > Subject: Re: Improvement order
> >
> > Actually, we're having turkey. Paul and Heidi are cooking.
> >
> > ~E
> >
> > Chris wrote:
> >
> >>I give props where they're due. And I'll tell Kevin I think he's a putz
> >>Monday night at his party. Then I'll eat his food. Putz or not, he makes a
> >>mighty tasty steak.
> >>
> >>1st Lt Christopher Hiles, RN BSN, CAP
> >>Nurse Officer
> >>Maryland Wing
> >>Deputy Commander for Cadets
> >>Fort McHenry Composite Squadron
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: cn-owner@ubercon.com [mailto:cn-owner@ubercon.com] On Behalf Of
> >>DaWiz
> >>Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:48 PM
> >>To: cn@outland.org
> >>Subject: Re: Improvement order
> >>
> >>Thanks for the support Chris!
> >>
> >>Actually that is a running joke between Kevin and me - for years I have
> >>"dazzled" him with code - to the point where he calls me to explain some
> >>aspect of code when he needs sleep and can't fall asleep.
> >>
> >>But I agree - he is a bit of a putz at times.
> >>
> >>DaWiz
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Chris" <chiles@ucwsf.org>
> >>To: <cn@outland.org>
> >>Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:37 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Improvement order
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Certainly no offense to DaWiz, who's assessment is accurate and well
> >>>thought
> >>>out, not to mention easy to understand. Kevin, you're a putz! He did
> >>>multiplication and subtraction... Just because he did math that didn't
> >>>have
> >>>a letter in it doesn't mean it's not worth learning.
> >>>
> >>>1st Lt Christopher Hiles, RN BSN, CAP
> >>>Nurse Officer
> >>>Maryland Wing
> >>>Deputy Commander for Cadets
> >>>Fort McHenry Composite Squadron
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: cn-owner@ubercon.com [mailto:cn-owner@ubercon.com] On Behalf Of
> >>>Kevin
> >>>Jagh - Snikt
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:09 PM
> >>>To: cn@outland.org
> >>>Subject: Re: Improvement order
> >>>
> >>>How is it that Dw makes my eyes glaze even in freaking CN?!?!?
> >>>S
> >>>
> >>>DaWiz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>The relative benefit of a factory vs a bank dependson the level of the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>nation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>At my current level (2,913 citizens with gross tax of $79,816 and an
> >>>>infra
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>cost of 4904.07)) the bank is the better choice. The reasoning is this:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>A bank increases income 7% which results in a 7% increase in taxes - in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>my case this is currently an increase of $5,587.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>A factory reduces the cost of infra by 8% or in my case it is a decrease
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>of $392.32 ($3,923.20 for 10 infra).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>The net benefit for a bank over a factory is currently $1,664 per day
> >>>>
> >>>>When you look at 5 banks vs 5 factories the difference is a reduction in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>infra cost (based on my $4,904 per level cost) of $19,616 while the
> >>>increased income for 5 banks would be $27,935.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Because the cost ifr infra goes up, there will be a point where the
> >>>>cost
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>savings will be more than the income increase. I have no idea as to the
> >>>rate
> >>>of increase of infra as it is purchased (I will start tracking that).
> >>>Until the decrease in cost of infra is more than the increase of income a
> >>>bank is the better choice.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>DaWiz
> >>>>Canon Land
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>--
> >>>The Daemon of Avatar
> >>>Every MUD has its daemons...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date:
> >>>12/27/2007 1:34 PM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date:
> > 12/27/2007 1:34 PM
> >
>
Jump to Forum:
 

8052614 Unique Visits

Powered by PHP-Fusion v6.01.18 © 2003-2007

Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

laazarus
Aug 12 2017 09:28
the wiki has been down for over 24hrs (ERROR 502 - Bad Gateway!)

laazarus
Apr 08 2017 02:54
TMS seems to be counting more accurately this month

laazarus
Mar 02 2017 13:07
TMS is still not counting votes, damn them! Somehow they count Outbound clicks better then Inbound which you would think would indicate to them there is an obvious error, but apparently not.

Qismat
Dec 25 2016 02:01
Christmas HOG now!

laazarus
Nov 09 2016 13:37
The End is Nigh!

Shoutbox Archive
Game Updates
Dec 11 2017 09:43
There is a disturbance in the realm as Flagg fails to become a Lord at sublevel 314.
Dec 11 2017 03:01
Rasul successfully morphs from Hero 331 to become Lord Rasul.
Dec 10 2017 23:28
There is a disturbance in the realm as Morticia fails to become a Lord at sublevel 500.
Dec 10 2017 16:54
There is a disturbance in the realm as Prospector fails to become a Lord at sublevel 505.
Dec 10 2017 12:42
There is a disturbance in the realm as Xorithan fails to become a Lord at sublevel 303.