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Player Conference October 24, 2015

(Kerrinth) Hi everyone :)

(Kerdor) morning

(Shinto) buddy |BK|{|BW|Oath|BK|} howdy Kerrinth

(Kerrinth) Type $HELP to see commands available inside the conference

(Belanor) log set?

(Kerrinth) Yes

(Belanor) ok I got my test alt watching over the game.

(Alrin) buddylist

(Ibn) heh

(Belanor) You can't buddychat while in here.

(Alrin) oops :)

(Alrin) *nod*

(Hamo) can you do any outside communication?

(Kerrinth) Just as everyone is filtering in and we are getting closer to the start time; reminders to please turn off triggers, timed commands, etc.

(Belanor) Not you guys.

(Alrin) ExecuteLastCommand

(Alrin) sorry about that, just saw the turn of triggers thing.

(Xiphoid) please use $help to see the list of commands that you can use

(Kerrinth) We would ask that to speak, please type $raisec to add a comment or $raise to ask a question

(Belanor) I will be keeping a queue of raised hands.

(Belanor) Please respect the queue.

(Kerrinth) Belanor will be keeping track of the queue - this is to make sure that everyone has a chance to speak and that we aren't all talking at once :)

(Pulse) Greetings.

(Belanor) Kind of how like we're doing now :) ;)

(Visete) who

(Visete) b right lol

(Kerrinth) ;)

(Visete) haha

(Kerrinth) try $who

(Kerrinth) A couple additions but it looks like we've got the majority of those who were able to make it :)

(Kerrinth) Thanks everyone for coming - I don't have anything too detailed written down for my talking points at this stage, we want to open the floor fairly quickly and hear from everyone

(Kerrinth) As I mentioned in the e-mail we have received emails from a few people about a variety of topics, mostly centered around 3 main areas

(Kerrinth) Policy, design, and quests.

(Kerrinth) Things like rules, structure, etc. fall under policy, design is anything related to game mechanics, races, classes, etc. and quests are... quests :)

(Kerrinth) We likely will not get any large sweeping changes today from this conference, but it will help us understand where the player base feels we could improve the game, or where things are going very well, etc.

(Kerrinth) Those changes can then come soon after :)

(Moet) help conference

(Moet) ops

(Belanor) conference limited to lord+ ?

(Kerrinth) So I would like to open the floor with Policy, before I dip into the emails received does anyone have any items they would like to bring up? Please remember to use $raise or $raisec

(Kerrinth) no, it is open to level 1+

(Moet) bl

(Belanor) heroes aren't able to join.

(Moet) quit

(Kerrinth) sigh.

(Kerrinth) brb :)

(Babble) try $help Moet

(Pulse) they are

(Belanor) Queue Seytan

(Kerrinth) Nod, a couple heroes in here already ;)

(Kerrinth) say Alrighty - so topic is general policy, Seytan please go ahead

(Aconite) i

(Enchantress) who

(Belanor) Queue> Seytan, Xing.

(Ibn) Sorry to jump queue, but please try to have questions and comments pre-typed if you're waiting to talk :)

(Hamo) whoi ibn

(Hamo) hehe

(Briceno) he's candy cane

(Kerrinth) Not to rush you Seytan, but just as you're typing could Xing go ahead?

(Xing) I'd like to bring up the topic regular mday, dual play, something like that.

(Seytan) oh, i have it ready

(Seytan) but sure

(Kerrinth) We'll swing back to ya Seytan ;)

(Seytan) that is one of my questions anyway :)

(Pulse) could you expand what you mean Xing?

(Kerrinth) Nod Xing, not the first time that I've heard something along those lines -- what thoughts did you have regarding it?

(Xing) Well, it's just to raise that topic. I see the mday as a great feature, but I think we could do better on that topic, for people that enjoy it

(Belanor) Queue> Seytan, Shinto

(Kerrinth) Alright - did you have any other items you wanted to attach to the thought?

(Xing) the lack of players at sometime is obvious

(Xing) not yet, will arisehand when I do:)

(Kerrinth) Thanks :)

(Belanor) Queue> Seytan, Shinto, Briceno

(Kerrinth) Seytan? Fire away ;)

(Seytan) Can I make a comment on that topic before my question?

(Kerrinth) Sure

(Atashi) sav

(Seytan) We can have mday rules applied to it for shadow etc.

(Seytan) We got a note about 2 years ago that a purge was coming, then insure and morgue issues got in the way. Will we have a purge in near future?

(Belanor) Queue> Shinto, Briceno, Pulse

(Kerrinth) Not sure I understand your comment regarding rules applied to it for shadow, could you elaborate?

(Seytan) on mday, you cannot run shadowland

(Seytan) which is a good restriction imho

(Kerrinth) Regarding purge - I have it in the back of my head to pick up Dalthane's tools that he used for purges -- it is not top priority though. So unless someone beats me to it, I can say that it will come, just not tomorrow :P

(Xiphoid) nod Kerrinth, same goes for me, most likely the next time I get twitchy about host disk space

(Seytan) There are some great names out there that we cannot use, would you be open to selective purge?

(Xiphoid) personally, I'm not so keen on doing it to free up names, I'd hope our players could be a little more original than needing to reuse names

(Kerrinth) As for shadow, I was working on something that might help there, with Seyonne and Gangrene.. For now I won't say much but we will jot it down and keep it in mind as we move forward as a consideration

(Seytan) Thank you, that is from me for now.

(Kerrinth) Thanks :)

(Belanor) Queue> Shinto, Briceno, Pulse

(Kerrinth) Shinto - if you're ready please go ahead

(Shinto) multiday comment, how hard would it be to let us play 3 lowmorts or 2 heros. i think it would cause more xp across peoples alts but im afraid it might cause groups to go down at hero since you could pretty much plvl your own alt. or maybe could we have a lord online and a hero at the same time?

(Kerrinth) Personally my feeling about a selective or restrictive multiplay like that it becomes easy to abuse and hard to restrict to be fair to all

(Pulse) can I respond please

(Kerrinth) Definitely

(Pulse) The thought that has been raised before re allowing multiplaying two alts all the time - this is pretty much impossible for the imm-team to monitor. It is sort of feasible to check whether someone is breaking the rules atm (it is not fun for us though), but with a two player multi allowed this would become a totally lost battle.

(Pulse) so from an imm perspective it has to be a 'no', as it would basically mean all our efforts would go to checking that the weakened rules are kept

(Pulse) no fun.

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Pulse, Ibn

(Belanor) _test

(Kerrinth) Thanks Shinto -- Next up is Briceno

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Ibn

(Briceno) I'd like to start off by setting the context for my query. Notes were written in the summer of 2014, and later fall of 2014, regarding the hero areas labeled as Elite. A few players at the time had mentioned their displeasure with the original XP scheme being modified to essentially render them unlucrative for small groups or soloing players. I had chimed in in several notes (which still exist) regarding the

(Briceno) subject, and Pulse had, to his credit, responded and provided a Google link to a scattergraph displaying the code as it stood now. I took the subject up against last spring during a designated "office" period after lack of movement on that subject following the notes. I was told it would be looked into. Personally I feel those areas are perfectly in their current form for large groups, but have lost their ori

(Kerrinth) Just as Briceno writes his question, reminders to all that the general topic is currently policy, please $raise or $raisec to join the queue

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Shinto

(Briceno) subject, and Pulse had, to his credit, responded and provided a Google link to a scattergraph displaying the code as it stood now. I took the subject up against last spring during a designated "office" period after lack of movement on that subject following the notes. I was told it would be looked into. Personally I feel those areas are perfectly in their current form for large groups, but have lost their

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Shinto, Kerdor

(Briceno) sorry - stand by for rephrasin

(Belanor) type faster :)

(Moet) sorry for interrupting, just pointing out tulpen raised hand after ibn

(Belanor) oh yes thanks!

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Tulpen, Shinto, Kerdor

(Briceno) their original purpose in the coding change shuffle. I would simply ask for them to be restored to their state as it was until early 2011. I also wish to bring up one more topic. Being an old player, I remember the implementation of shadow in the fall of 2001. While some abuse was inevitable by high level players vis-a-vis heroes and lower, this was less a reflection of lords being intact in Mid than the aver

(Briceno) to summarize, I would like to see shadow toggled off sometimes

(Briceno) and the two-alt suggestion was from, that pulse brought up - but it was for troika and large lord runs needing such counts

(Briceno) not for the entire mud

(Briceno) sorry for the long question - had parsing issues

(Pulse) can I ask a query re the EHA.

(Briceno) go ahead please

(Pulse) for information: we had started looking into modifying the xp curve on an area by area basis for the EHA, which is perfectly possible. But we were worried on the lashback we would be receiving for nerfing things.

(Pulse) how open are players to us tweaking xp curves on an area by area basis, so that it reflects the difficulty of the actual place

(Briceno) i would like to see abishai restored to dev's setting

(Briceno) the rest is at your discretion

(Briceno) just speaking for me, of course

(Pulse) anyone else?

(Sephroth) nod

(Atashi) appl

(Belanor) Queue> Tulpen, Shinto, Kerdor

(Loso) sc

(Pulse) I am not sure what you are applauding to :P

(Loso) whoops sorry

(Briceno) I assume my comment :p

(Loso) I agree with your strategy pulse

(Hamo) Me too

(Tulpen) am I up?

(Belanor) I believe so.

(Xiphoid) you mentioned numbers required for troika as a potential justification for 2 lord multi, is that something we need to revisit?

(Tulpen) regarding multiday, wouldn't it be easy enough to prevent 2 logins from an ip unless multiregged? or is that not feasible?

(Xiphoid) sorry, to butt in before Tulpen, I did raise a comment :)

(Briceno) that and lord runs requiring large groupsl like demon ascension - just to clarify

(Belanor) I must have missed it, sorry Xiphoid.

(Briceno) since i know you can technically provide troika bots

(Visete) i agree with Briceno regarding Abishai

(Seytan) I am with Visete and Briceno on that too

(Kerrinth) Just as a quick RE: to Tulpen -- it is definitely possible, but for those who want to create a new character or what have you it presents a negative experience until multireg is able to catch up, which can be a day or two

(NightHawk) sca

(Kerrinth) Yes we want to keep play fair, but we don't want to subtract from the overall experience at the same time

(Tulpen) just can't multi until then

(Xiphoid) also, consider shared sites where people aren't aware of each other

(Kerrinth) Did anyone have any thoughts regarding Xiphoid's question?

(Sephroth) sorry i missed it, pc dc

(Kerrinth) ) you mentioned numbers required for troika as a potential justification for 2 lord multi, is that something we need to revisit?

(Menace) i get a new ip everytime i restart my router so i need to multi reg everytime then?

(Alrin) Aren't we only allowed one legend alt?

(Xiphoid) nogs, exactly Menace, it's not workable to add a hard restriction like that

(Seytan) I dont get the large number for troika but i am ok with it. It is not like you cannot wait for mday to do it

(Kerrinth) Specifically thinking that if we need x lords to complete troika but we don't have that many online at once time then we should revise x

(Moet) to solo troika?

(Tulpen) it's not like people are lining up to troika either

(Xiphoid) yes, it seems like if that's a problem, we need to tune down the number required for doing something, not allow everybody to log in two alts to do it

(Briceno) that may be subsidiary to the large lord runs requiring 25-35 playerrs consideration (to allow 2 alts)

(Briceno) I should perhaps have made the troika justification less prominent

(Hamo) clap briceno

(Aconite) You can restrict the number of multi alts joining the same group by checking ip at that time?

(Gangrene) there is no run requiring 25-30 lords anymore

(Briceno) demon ascension is one for sure

(Pulse) If there are specific runs - can we please get a lsit and we can review

(Belanor) Queue> (comment Seyonne), Shinto, Kerdor

(Kerrinth) Just for the sake of time -- did anyone else in the queue have something related to this?

(Seyonne) For what it's worth, every run I've put out has been completed, and that includes the hardest (IMO) available at both hero and lord at the moment.

(Xing) Im not in the queue, but i Do

(Kerrinth) We will be doing a take away action on this to review these runs, just want to be sure we catch everything

(Belanor) Queue> (comment Xing), Shinto, Kerdor

(Briceno) make a gulch run seyonne :p

(Kerrinth) Go ahead quick Xing ;) we'll move on after your comment

(Xing) I see that mplay can be easy abused at hero, at lord it's different

(Xing) dualplay i mean

(Ziggurat) Lord run difficulty is massively skewed depending on how many 999 lords with massively inflated stats you bring

(Belanor) Queue> (comment Xaatu), Shinto, Kerdor

(Kerrinth) nod, thanks Xing

(Kerrinth) say Xaatu?

(Xaatu) multi will discourage public grouping

(Belanor) Queue> Shinto, Kerdor, Gangrene, Aconite

(Xaatu) that is all

(Kerrinth) nod - Any others in the queue regarding this topic?

(Kerrinth) Again looking to move onto a new one for time's sake

(Kerdor) mine is a specific situation dual play topic

(Kerrinth) Last one please :)

(Kerdor) regarding no dual play - i assume this would still also be a nightmare to track for the purposes of those of us that dedicatedly bot;

(Kerdor) but also sometimes want to play. perhaps amend no-multi to 1 legend and 1 other or 1 bot and 1 other - using same multireg requirements as current

(Pulse) Botting is your choice what to do with your alt

(Pulse) ie spell bot.

(Kerdor) that's what i figured; but wanted to bring it up anyway. thanks

(Kerrinth) Thanks Kerdor :)

(Pulse) nod

(Kerrinth) Alrighty - so just for the sake of time, we need to move further through the queue on other items :)

(Kerrinth) Shinto?

(Shinto) ive made a few spreadsheets on new classes and races with s/h/l lists and background. even the "what they are good at, and what they arent" is this just a waste of time? ive been told by a few that the odds are that anyone up there would even look at it.

(Xiphoid) s/h/l?

(Shinto) slit hlist llist

(Gangrene) can remove me from queue

(Kerrinth) Honestly -- keep it going, the issue really is just finding time to meet with someone ;)

(Kerrinth) We all have a few projects on the go, Titan has been a huge project and a lot of work has gone into it

(Xiphoid) new classes are a pretty big undertaking, so finding one of us willing and able to devote the necessary time to implementing one is likely to be the biggest hurdle

(Kerrinth) Having said that, looking into the future I'm certain that we would be happy to have input like this :)

(Shinto) do we know what we need to do to get to titan? like a morph cause im not a fan of running lord like alot of people i know. so our lord alts hardly get past remort lvls

(Belanor) Queue> Kerdor, Aconite

(Pulse) Meep.

(Pulse) No titan questions

(Belanor) Queue> Kerdor, Aconite, Seytan

(Kerrinth) Next was Kerdor, please go ahead ;)

(Kerrinth) (Thanks Shinto!)

(Kerdor) mine was answered re:dual

(Kerrinth) nod, ty

(Kerrinth) Aconite?

(Aconite) have 4 questions.

(Belanor) Queue> Seytan, Laazarus

(Aconite) Can we provide a bonus to voters on mudlist sites(last 24 hours) bonus is up to you.

(Kerrinth) We cannot, no

(Kerrinth) They explicitly do not allow it

(Xiphoid) it's against the policy of those voting sites for us to offer rewards

(Aconite) nods ty. :)

(Aconite) Can we change huge skill lags(like sharpen, fletch) to exhaust?

(Xiphoid) of course, if we got in the top 10, I know I would be celebrating in some ways that players would find enjoyable

(Hamo) my aplause were to aconite

(Hamo) *innocent

(Kerrinth) Grin - could you elaborate on the "why"?

(Belanor) xing

(Belanor) oh nevermind

(Xing) its other topic

(Belanor) not, thought it was a comment.

(Belanor) i need coffee

(Belanor) Queue> Kerdor, Aconite, Xing

(Aconite) it cuts interaction in any way :?

(Laazarus) hey

(Belanor) comments. Solana, Hamo, Ibn

(Laazarus) got dropped from queue somehow

(Seytan) me too

(Ibn) aconite - are you referring to making it so that social commands / chatting could be used during long lag actions?

(Belanor) you spoke seytan...

(Aconite) yes ibn.

(Gangrene) so ibn took my comment, can remove me :P

(Kerrinth) Just to quickly recover with the flurry of hands there :P

(Kerrinth) Any other items specific to this topic?

(Ibn) :sorry gangrene, I wanted to make sure to help aconite clarify.

(Solana) worth looking at ways to encourage voting that is within what is permitted by the sites, more player ideas would be welcome

(Gangrene) i was going to bring up that discussion has been given to social interactions during lag in the past

(Seytan) i have one: a toggleable info channel to remind us, done by players of course

(Belanor) Queue> (sorry if I missed someone) Kerdor, Aconite, Xing, Briceno

(Laazarus) Seytan was next, followed by me, then rest of que

(Kerrinth) Aconite, did you have any other items?

(Belanor) Seytan already spoke.

(Aconite) Can we design a mud protocol language, for to make client -> mud interactions better? like instead of using

(Aconite) triggers to capture certain player status or atributes.

(Aconite) Example Client Sending ->mudinfo char

(Aconite) Mud Response -> Aconite:21:22:20:40:stand (and goes on.) That is Char Str:Con:wis: .. etc.

(Aconite) This will also reduce the trafic of the net. Can open possibilities for new skills or Avatar specific

(Aconite) mud client.

(Xiphoid) I'm working on it

(Xiphoid) MSDP

(Xiphoid) well, GMCP

(Laazarus) i mentioned a number of things to kerrinth in an email a while ago, not sure if those were already discussed

(Aconite) ty :) my last question.

(Aconite) After you reach hero you cannot delete the char, can there be a command to keep the char and start it with

(Aconite) creatable race creatable class inorder to keep the name.? This command can only be after a remort and

(Aconite) before hero, sets the back back to lvl 2.?

(Kerrinth) As part of requests I can confirm that we raised the discussion regarding hero deletions, but have not been able to complete it - trying to prioritize the open requests first

(Belanor) (I think we skipped Kerdor)

(Kerrinth) With what it is I may move to open it back to general Imm, considering it has been such a long standing policy

(Kerdor) no, mine was re:dual and was answered

(Belanor) ok thanks. sorry.

(Kerrinth) All set Aconite?

(Aconite) yes, thanks for the answers :)

(Atashi) sav

(Kerrinth) :) Who was next?

(Belanor) Queue> Xing, Briceno

(Belanor) i think

(Xing) I think lowmort as it is is just a waste of time. We get spells from bots, do DCs and after a couple hours we are heroes.

(Xing) I'm not saying to remove it, esp. since its done, but I think there should be a way to not make it a mandatory path to go hero. IE: remorts wouldnt need it.

(Kerrinth) For the record - we are definitely touching on policy and design items so far, please feel free to raise both

(Laazarus) umm

(Seytan) raise

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Moiraine, Seytan.

(Laazarus) in an email to kerrinth i mentioned more details on these questions - improvements to grf, dsd and hob, add dem and fae as third step/evolution races that can only play at lord or higher, system for asn to make their own poisons, way for asn to use insightful with bow at lord, new race idea of Jinn

(Kerrinth) Are those questions related to Xing's point?

(Moiraine) nope

(Seytan) nope

(Kerrinth) nod Laaz, I've recorded your thoughts for further review :)

(Pulse) re Xing. It would make more sense then to take away spell bots for lowmorts and give it back some difficulty?

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Moiraine, Seytan, Atashi.

(Gangrene) then you just have old players trading spellups like before

(Xing) Would just take longer to get there

(Pulse) nope, you block spells that are not within the spell range,

(Xing) its boring like it is imo

(Pulse) difficulty back

(Pulse) different argument Xing :)

(Xing) the argument is that it's pointless like it is. we learn nothing, just waste time

(Belanor) hammo comment real quick.

(Belanor) quicker

(Hamo) I don't think it's completely pointless, but it isn't as neccesary if you have done

(Pulse) Xing, is that because you are remort or in general

(Hamo) lowmort tons of times

(Ylem) with the addition of lowmort quests that add semi or permanent insignia there are things the keep it from being just a run through

(Hamo) so making it longer doesn't seem like the right approach

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Moiraine, Seytan, Kerdor.

(Xing) as remort we have gone throught the learning path, so low mort doesnt teach much

(Pulse) I can follow that if it is a race remort, but not so much with class remort.

(Belanor) Laaz your omment quick.

(Laazarus) i think it's fun, and there are enough areas to explore that you'll still have some next time thru

(Xing) not a big issue, in 3-4 hours we get rid of that. just wantes to bring the oppinion too :)

(Hamo) agreed pulse

(Xing) yes, can be something like that Pulse

(Laazarus) lowmort is a different style of play to other tiers, it has value

(Laazarus) lots of interesting content, areas, mobs etc

(Briceno) my question touches heavily on lowmort

(Briceno) if we can move to that when possible

(Laazarus) removing it would be like cutting off your own arm, it's part of the whole experience and world of AV

(Kerrinth) Any other items directly related to this topic?

(Kerdor) mine is an aside to lowmort

(Xing) as I sid, I didnt say to remove it

(Laazarus) even to diminish it

(Belanor) Seytan and Zig wanted to comment.

(Seytan) i suggest people to make imp blds to have fun at lowmort

(Atashi) laugh

(Atashi) oops, sorry. was looking for the emote

(Laazarus) ent is fun at lowmort

(Kerrinth) Zigggurat was your item re: lowmort? Or other

(Belanor) Queue> Briceno, Moiraine, Seytan, Izanagi

(Sephroth) ent is great at lowmort

(Belanor) zig wanted to comment, not a new item.

(Ziggurat) actually i'm good (Ziggurat) other people got my point across

(Kerrinth) Alrighty - let's move onto the next :)

(Kerrinth) Briceno?

(Briceno) I've broken this into wordpad in about three separate lines, as the command prompt cut/paste method earlier didn't work out so well and most of the final portion was excised in the interest of time. :)

(Briceno) This question touches less on the game from a player standpoint than strictly a building one. I know for a long time the policy was that area submissions were generally a staff-only prerogative.

(Briceno) To that end, I would like to know if it would be possible to create an application process to be considered for an area-writing role. I feel there are areas, particularly at low mortal, that would benefit from revision as well as the addition of new ones to revitalize this tier.

(Briceno) Others have expressed interest as well, both in the idea as well as being given the mandate to do this. Could be revisit the concept of area-building roles and their assignment to interested/qualified users?

(Briceno) Thanks :)

(Kerrinth) Short answer is that something like this takes a *lot* of time, and we need someone on our end dedicated to working with the players involved...

(Belanor) laz comment

(Ibn) Briceno - in the past we've had themed area building contests that tend to (perhaps inadvertently) serve as a so-called "application process." maybe we can review having another one soon pending Malaclypse's consideration

(Laazarus) some of us were helping out when zahri for example was around, some area writing etc, and all builders i knew were removed. is there any info about future work possibilities?

(Ibn) We have seen a number of areas go in, with winners winding up contributing more regularly.

(Briceno) yes, I was aware of that option as a few area were made by players who never had staff status. I suppose I meant to ask if a more comprehensive and official process could be implemented

(Ibn) We'll make a note to chat with Mal about it. :)

(Briceno) that was my question, thanks

(Kerrinth) Thanks Briceno :)

(Belanor) Queue> Moiraine, Seytan.

(Moiraine) This conference (I think) was supposed to help address the direction of Avatar, but most players don't particularly even know what direction that is. There are plenty of players out there that want to offer feedback,

(Kerrinth) Any comments on this before moving on?

(Moiraine) oops

(Moiraine) sorry

(Laazarus) for example i wrote some of the current midgaard destroyed descriptions, but that was only meant to be temporary

(Kerrinth) Go ahead Moiraine :P

(Moiraine) This conference (I think) was supposed to help address the direction of Avatar, but most players don't particularly even know what direction that is. There are plenty of players out there that want to offer feedback,

(Moiraine) but historically feel like they're talking into a black hole or otherwise that there's almost no transparency regarding what's being worked on. They would appreciate Imms who would engage with players to work with each other on ideas to help make what's coming better.

(Moiraine) I've spent a large amount of time talking to various players in the past couple months, and a large feeling is that nobody's really listening, or that their ideas are dismissed without further comment.

(Moiraine) Many of them want to be able to be involved but have tried in the past and had nothing to show for it. They speak but feel like nobody's listening. Many have ideas (lengthy, thought out, involved ideas sometimes), but just don't don't feel confident in the ability to be heard.

(Moiraine) Question(s) is/are, can we get commitment from the Immortal team to help players feel somewhat included regarding design? Transparency with what's being worked on (I know you mentioned help files being worked on)?

(Moiraine) What the actual direction is, and when it changes, communication with the players regarding that? Open channels for players to discuss different ideas and to feel like they can contribute? More obvious efforts to iterate based on what works and what doesnt?

(Kerrinth) Well - something like this isn't a "small" thing :P

(Kerrinth) But yes, that is the goal with the help files that I mentioned in the note/email etc, that I sent out

(Belanor) tuplen comment

(Zyzzx) tell belanor Is this the time/place to bring up blackjack?

(Tulpen) we used to be able to see the task list, that went a long way as knowing what was going on

(Kerrinth) To make it obvious who is a contact for what - someone reaching out to me regarding why pal quests work the way they do... doesn't work as well as asking me about requests for example :P

(Zyzzx) *groan

(Moiraine) Many many players feel like there is almost no interaction with players to help address what's actually going on, I think just more commitment to actually interacting with us or opening up conversations regularly would really help

(Belanor) hamo comment

(Hamo) reading that note about working on Titan was helpful too. I didn't imagine something like that would happen. Thanks to those working on it. Communication is just nice.

(Belanor) pulse comment

(Briceno) leave

(Pulse) First, the basic is that this mud is a benign dictatorship

(Briceno) sorry, what's the exit command

(Belanor) please type faster oh implementor (duck)

(Briceno) must step out

(Kerrinth) To exit try $exit

(Briceno) thank you

(Xiphoid) Seyonne and I have done some work on making the task list visible on the website, I'll commit to spending some more time on that since I guess that will really help to give an insight into what we're up to

(Pulse) where basically some imms pay for the server and take the brunt of the work

(Pulse) so the amount of iteration and direction that players will get are potentially not as far reaching as some people would like to see

(Pulse) having said that

(Pulse) it is meant to be a very benign dictatorship :P

(Pulse) so, yes, more interaction and information would be very good, so that we do not miss the point of working for the players

(Pulse) no question about that.

(Moiraine) Thank you

(Belanor) one last comment on this... was laaz

(Laazarus) an example of not knowing direction, zahri was running ongoing quests about succession and destruction in midgaard and other things, now that has stopped half way. are there plans to continue or resolve this? silence has been deafening for a while now.

(Briceno) surge 4

(Pulse) we ahve been hesitant about raising some things we work on, as we have a habit of missing self set deadlines due to the havocs of real life

(Pulse) which is why titan is only mentioned now

(Moiraine) I think that most people in the working world know that deadlines aren't very realistic, I think people just want the chance to chime in and understand what's going on

(Pulse) which in turn has necessarily made it appear to players as if we have not been doing anything for a while

(Briceno) would just like to add to laazarus's post that I feel certain historical areas like mid or ofcol should have been left intact, and new areas built on the perimeter of those areas or the map itself

(Briceno) just for continuity/storyline purposes

(Laazarus) sure bric, but anyway it's left half way now, something should be done with it one way or the other (revert or new)

(Briceno) agreed

(Pulse) are you thinking of monthly sessions, or something like that?

(Laazarus) i did have fun writing those room desc though

(Moiraine) It doesn't necessarily even have to be formal, even sometimes hoping in and just asking players for casual feedback

(Hamo) and players need to be forgiving if deadlines aren't met, still good to know thigs are happening

(Moiraine) What you're thinking, what you're working towards, and getting a pulse (no pun intended) on what players opinions might be and any value they might be able to add

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Seytan, Atashi, Shinto.

(Kerrinth) Any last items for this topic before moving on?

(Kerrinth) Alrighty - Seytan please go ahead!

(Seytan) My next two questions are about design (i think)

(Pulse) we will discuss the action on that in the imm team.

(Seytan) Will there ever be a move related class or moves are there only to annoy ents? If there are no plans for it, would it be possible to have a toggle for group info, now that we have quite a few 100k stat players coming up

(Seytan) Spirits Of Eragora Quest is a hero only quest while the gear is VERY applicable to lord. Would it be possible to allow lords to do that quest? (or any new quests in there)

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Atashi, Shinto, Aconite.

(Gangrene) zahri was adamantly against lords having access to that quest

(Kerrinth) Sorry... You've lost be on the first one half way through :P What is the toggle on group info about?

(Kerrinth) lost me*

(Seytan) when you type group, there is no need to see moves for lords

(Seytan) b Rooks is ruining our eyes

(Pulse) It is unlikely that there will be a move related class as such. We are always pondering what the best way of making use of moves is, but action points apparetnyl was not it :P

(Tulpen) gag them

(Seytan) Tulpen will be next

(Briceno) nor was lag when changing gears :p

(Briceno) a few bad ideas have been scrapped before

(Kerrinth) ah nod I follow - regarding group info - is there something that might be better to see there?

(Belanor) Even gagging moves does not restructure the looks of the group list.

(Seytan) b just less is better

(Seytan) remove moves, open up space for mana/hp

(Seytan) and anything else people may find useful

(Belanor) laz comment

(Xiphoid) does anybody still use an 80 column terminal? do we still need to restrict ourselves to that width?

(Belanor) I still do

(Pulse) it really is the max for some phone screens

(Shinto) remove my from question something came up need to afk

(Laazarus) this problem of breaking group stat layout is related to lords getting stats forever at 999. we could just prevent ppl having 100k stats that the layout wasnt intended for

(Belanor) I keep half the screen for cmud, and half of my screen for other things.

(Xiphoid) you gotta upgrade that green-screen Wyse sometime Belanor ;)

(Xiphoid) ok, fair enough, I'm happy to keep 80 cols as a standard, just wanted to see what people felt on that

(Belanor) I have a 29 inch :P Big enough for me, but I multi task :)

(Briceno) I was just wondering if the first question I had earlier had been noted. Specifically the allowance of lords without a shadow for specific periods, rather than as a permanent state (as of old) simply to allow new players to get a taste for playing their lord alt in that realm (droning groups exempted)

(Belanor) Mord comment and gangrene...

(Mordenkain) If you change the group info, I - as a noob here -) - would find it helpful to see the class of the ppl

(Briceno) due to character cutoffs most of it wasnt typed out

(Pulse) Re second question - ie access to quests:

(Pulse) typically we try to stay true to the authors wishes

(Belanor) look

(Belanor) eh.

(Belanor) woops

(Saeros) for what it's worth, i wrote the quest, and also with zahri wanted hero only

(Seytan) well, if it is only hero quest, its reward should be applicable to only hero then, imho

(Seytan) as author, are you ok with lords doing it?

(Laazarus) how about DC quests?

(Aconite) #raiseec

(Pulse) we will always add more things to the game, and some characters who are past the point will not have done that quest. It is nothing new.

(Aconite) i

(Pulse) and we will not make all the stuff available.

(Kerrinth) If I may - if anything that means for those who are looking at lord quests in the future can keep it in mind

(Gangrene) perhaps future builders can make new items to replace the hand slot, which is the prize for that quest

(Gangrene) or whatever

(Kerrinth) Thanks Gangrene :P A better worded version of what I was trying to explain

(ASeT) inv

(ASeT) st

(ASeT) vis

(ASeT) sl

(Kerrinth) Let's get the last few thoughts on this topic before we move on

(ASeT) quit

(Kerrinth) Starting to run down on time :)

(ASeT) time

(ASeT) st

(ASeT) vis

(ASeT) sl

(ASeT) ?

(ASeT) res

(Solana) use the $ sign

(ASeT) say tells work!!!!!! tell me help

(ASeT) st

(ASeT) vis

(ASeT) sl

(Solana) like $quit

(Shinto) aset do $quit

(Kerrinth) :)

(Solana) or $help

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Atashi, Shinto, Aconite, Zyzzx.

(Kerrinth) Atashi please go ahead

(Atashi) Hi, just a quick question regarding certain classes.

(Atashi) I've realized that certain prestige classes, namely fus, dru, and bci are considerably more rare at lord tier.

(Atashi) I assume that the reason for this is because of their roles, functions and/or abilities to contribute to the group.

(Atashi) (That said, i'm not saying that they are being shunned by the group leaders.)

(Atashi) will these classes be loooked into to increase their viabilities in lord groups?

(Atashi) kind of like how clerics, blds got skills post-lord1.

(Atashi) thank you

(Briceno) and monks too were improved

(Laazarus) and shf

(Saeros) lord stone fletching is the worst

(Atashi) think shf are quite common now after the implementation of qi

(Pulse) the plan is that all classes get reviewed

(Laazarus) yes

(Pulse) same as the ones who already had a treatment

(Briceno) i feel sor personally could use some revisiting

(Briceno) it hasnt really changed since 2001

(Pulse) in what order and how quickly - that depends a bit on when we have a good idea.

(Atashi) great! that's all i wanted to know..

(Atashi) :)

(Kerrinth) Thanks Atashi :)

(Kerrinth) So just before we move on - I'd like to ask that any other items for today please queue now -- we're going to have to wrap up fairy soon

(Kerrinth) Fairly :)

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Atashi, Shinto, Aconite, Zyzzx.

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Atashi, Shinto, Aconite, Zyzzx, Gangrene.

(Laazarus) i wanted to add asn to that list of classes needing a look at hero. i know that was mentioned a while ago, wondering where that is at now?

(Laazarus) er at lord i meant

(Kerrinth) Obviousy items that are not mentioned today can still be raised going forward, but we do have a few things from today already to start looking at

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Shinto, Aconite, Zyzzx, Gangrene.

(Briceno) sorry - just wondering when the official end of the conf is

(Kerrinth) Wow I can't type today. Thanks Laaz :) I seem to think I have asn specifically mentioned on my list already tbh

(Pulse) re Laazarus - cannot give a definite answer on status right now, but it is noted as being on the list needing some TLC

(Hamo) we talking about quests yet?

(Kerrinth) Yes Hamo, please feel free to queue with quest items alos

(Kerrinth) also*

(Laazarus) thnx P

(Kerrinth) Last call for queued items today

(Kerrinth) 5

(Kerrinth) 4

(Kerrinth) 3

(Kerrinth) 2

(Kerrinth) 1

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Shinto, Aconite, Zyzzx, Gangrene.

(Kerrinth) Alrighty - last few items, Shinto please go ahead

(Shinto) reincarnation point spent on skills like a cle with 5 points can spend 2 to get steel skeleton to 50% apon remort. just another list to help bots and other plays get a new experiance from their class on the way through remort.

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Shinto, Aconite, Zyzzx, Gangrene, Hamo

(Kerrinth) Interesting - I'll add it as something interesting to look at

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Aconite, Zyzzx, Gangrene, Hamo

(Kerrinth) Anything else for now?

(Belanor) Zyzzx your comment quickly.

(Zyzzx) There is no way an incarnation is worth 1500qp

(Zyzzx) Or even two remorts

(Zyzzx) As Shinto is suggesting.

(Zyzzx) *end comment

(Kerrinth) The point was completely theoretical, it is pointless to look at this in detail now :)

(Kerrinth) Aconite go ahead please

(Aconite) Working on titans means leaving legend play untouched?

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Zyzzx, Gangrene, Hamo

(Visions) help titan

(Pulse) at this point it is untouched. If I ever get some bit of spare time, which is a bit unlikely, then it will get some good work.

(Pulse) however

(Pulse) legend will benefit from the fight code overhaul needed for titan.

(Aconite) Can we suggest ideas about legend play alternatives?

(Pulse) not at this point.

(Aconite) nods. Thanks :D

(Kerrinth) Zyzzx you're up :)

(Zyzzx) Was it intentional leave Gth out of the lowmort DC quests? Will this change?

(Pulse) I am still grumpy that I received zero responses to the request who would be intersted in participating if we made legend code open source.

(Pulse) that was two years ago

(Alrin) I wasn't around for that.

(Laazarus) i never saw that request

(Xing) same

(Briceno) me either

(Menace) well now u did :)

(Namor) so, he just opened the door?

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Gangrene, Hamo

(Laazarus) i would be interested, what language is the code?

(Pulse) if anyone is interested, email me.

(Kerdor) i think some major requests for things should also be posted to mailer rather than just ingame notes - people not actively logging in might still be on mailer

(Kerrinth) Zyzzx: I seem to believe it was mentioned in notes - At the time that DC was written Gth was not a playable option. It isn't necessarily never getting DC, but it requires someone stepping in to write it

(Aconite) may be we can talk it about in ideas maillist like design stage?

(Pulse) let's stop with legend please. Anyone who wants to be part of the conversation, email me.

(Kerrinth) Gangrene please go ahead

(Gangrene) there have been rumors in past months of lord 999 stat rerolls due to high stat inflation. can we put these rumors to rest one way or the other? :)

(Briceno) if so, mimir's strengthening of lord mobs would also need reversal

(Briceno) look they were done in consequence

(Pulse) refer to imm note from Ibn send in august on board 7, clarifying

(Belanor) Queue> Please wait for Kerrinth to ask you to start.. Hamo

(Pulse) note 154

(Pulse) As far as the immortal team is concerned,

(Pulse) there is no such thing as rerolling lords.

(Pulse) Any talk in that direction is rumor.

(Pulse) If you heard something along those lines,

(Pulse) only the person who spoke can legitimize

(Pulse) the things they said.

(Pulse) I can state, having spoken with all the current

(Pulse) active immortals that the first we heard of this

(Pulse) was my own interjection during a meeting today.

(Pulse) There is no general concensus or intention to roll

(Pulse) existing lords, regardless of level, backward.

(Pulse) If this situation changes, I promise to share

(Pulse) and prepare you for it. I don't think it will.

(Pulse) ... that should be clear enough ? :)

(Gangrene) yup thanks

(Laazarus) so there is no end to it? i think it's problematic for the game if alts can endlessly add hp and mana at 999

(Pulse) that does not mean we try not to deal with the situation, but that will not be via reroll

(Ibn) laz - there's a difference between a reroll and a ... what pulse said ;)

(Laazarus) agreed

(Laazarus) but to the original question

(Laazarus) i'd like to hear more clearly what IS the plan, where does it end

(Briceno) i assume once rooks breaks 300khp the mud crashes

(Laazarus) sounds like the plan is not to have a plan

(Tulpen) type train, the limit is there

(Briceno) was a joke :)

(Rooks) we spend our rl time only to run 1 alt

(Pulse) we don't have a plan right now as we had something else to focus on.

(Pulse) We have some ideas, but they do not consitute a 'plan'

(Kerrinth) Hamo - you had the floor last with a quests item :)

(Hamo) just wanted to put in that I think the Seyonne questpoint quests have been spectacular, I think doing that and a few more things to add qpoints into economy is beneficial, and specifically it has allowed some not as run lord runs(at least not on non multiday) to get back into play. Can we keep doing commander until I finally win a steel chest?

(Laazarus) ok, understood. i agree with questions premise, that it would be good to publicize a policy when it is formulated

(Hamo) so more a thanks if we were going to talk quests. :)

(Kerrinth) Please go ahead Setyan

(Kerrinth) thanks Hamo :)

(Seytan) . Can we have player-qp rather than character-qp?

(Hamo) ooo

(Briceno) to add to what hamo said, Skorn's long quests for holidays, with multiple legs and no groupsize limits, were spectacularly creative and required writing specific quest mobs and possibly rooms

(Belanor) player qp instead of character qp?

(NightHawk) I like that idea

(Saeros) yes

(Briceno) I applaud seyonne's revitalization of the lord tier with those simple style quests

(Saeros) on multireg not char

(Sephroth) thinking he means they all stack?

(Briceno) but a specific person or persons to do the full quests of the past would be interesting

(Menace) you altlist get the qp not just one char

(Hamo) instead of the transfer rules

(Gangrene) qp added to the altlist i imagine

(Seytan) yes

(Gangrene) rather than character

(Sephroth) nod

(Laazarus) second what menace said

(NightHawk) Third

(Kerdor) fourth'd

(Sephroth) fourth:)

(Laazarus) i don't even know my total qp now as they are randomly scattered

(Belanor) We could do it manually to the "main" alt under the player alt list.

(Seytan) there are some quests (well at least one) that you can do on each alt. I dont know what to say about that though

(Kerrinth) For something like this, it would require a fair bit of review and thought on the matter, I really can't make a commitment on it now. But I'll write it into the list

(Pulse) one 'no'. the'no'-s have it.

(Pulse) Sorry, had to try that one :)

(Kerrinth) grin

(Pulse) don't take it to serious though

(Kerrinth) Did anyone have anything specific to Hamo's point? We do need to wrap up now ;)

(Laazarus) )

(Belanor) Comment on qps here.

(Laazarus) on hamos pt

(Namor) thanks for doing this

(Menace) main char would be awesome to have it on

(Moet) but with those qp quests that seyonne are setting up, ppl are only coming out when there's a run for qp nowadays.

(Briceno) just that the quets of the past, elaborate and multi-staged, were very decent

(Laazarus) maybe in similar vein to the successful recent quests, someone could step in and finish zahri's midgaard one

(Belanor) I can't speak for all immortals, but I personally have given players the choice on what alt they wish to get their qps on, if and when I run events.

(Moet) once the qp runs are done, everyone scatters off again.

(NightHawk) Agreed

(NightHawk) No one wants to run gear anymore because they can get it on multi-day

(Briceno) that's true, but we had a serious penury of lord players until recently

(NightHawk) On multi-day they don't have to put up with afk/iaw groupies

(Kerrinth) nod, something that I've discussed with Seyonne for long-term plans :)

(Laazarus) thnx for hosting this conference imms

(Briceno) so I credit seyonne for doing what he does

(Saeros) or losing lotto every time

(Menace) yeah same here briceno

(NightHawk) Thanks Seyonne!

(Kerrinth) At this point we will need to wrap up for today, but please those who have more thoughts please hold onto them and feel free to reach out

(Moet) multiday is just once a month, it's actually quite challenging to do it.

(Seytan) I would be happy to discuss further about player based questpoints if any imm is interested.

(Enchantress) thanks

(Enchantress) i

(Briceno) thanks for hosting the conference and allowing us to air our views

(Seytan) thank you

(Sephroth) ty

(Kerrinth) I will be combing through the logs soon and making the full print out available to all :)

(Rooks) thnks for hosting it!

(Sephroth) i

(Kerrinth) Hugs to all


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Shoutbox Archive
Game Updates
Jan 27 2023 21:13
There is a disturbance in the realm as Notmizuno fails to become a Lord at sublevel 552.
Jan 27 2023 20:30
Markath successfully morphs from Hero 999 to become Lord Markath.
Jan 27 2023 18:14
There is a disturbance in the realm as Psiator fails to become a Lord at sublevel 432.
Jan 27 2023 14:24
Musafir has remorted into a Sprite Wizard.
Jan 27 2023 14:12
Xuesen successfully morphs from Hero 515 to become Lord Xuesen.